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Canton should call these legends
Cold, Hard Football Facts for March 2, 2007
THE ELITE EIGHT
they'd be wise to start with this octet of overlooked stars.
By Cold, Hard Football Facts contributor Jonathan Comey
 1. DERRICK THOMAS, LBYears pro: Chiefs, 1989-99
All-Pro: 8
Consensus All-NFL: 1990, 1991
All-Decade team? Yes
Playoff games: 10
Super Bowl rings: 0
His teams' avg. defensive ranking: 8.27 (out of 30-32 teams)
Cold, Hard Football Facts: Averaged 11.5 sacks over 11 seasons, forced 45 fumbles
Offensive HOF equivalent: Brett Favre. Like Favre, Thomas was the unquestioned face of the franchise for more than a decade, was consistently good, sometimes great; perennial Pro Bowler, mixed success in the postseason.
The case against: You tell us! Played in the AFC? Team didn’t have success in the playoffs? There really is no case against – if he had similar success at any of the offensive skill positions, he would have been an instant Hall of Famer.
The case for: As a player, what do you need to know? His Chiefs teams were always excellent – they had winning records in 10 of his 11 seasons, and the defense had an average ranking in the top 10. In his second NFL season, he was the best outside linebacker in the NFL, and he was still making Pro Bowls nearly a decade later.
In summary: Since it’s obvious to anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of the NFL that Derrick Thomas is a Hall of Fame player, let’s talk about him as a person. Here’s a guy whose life was saved by football, grew up hard but survived because he loved the game and wanted to play it. Never took it for granted, was a pillar of the community as a pro. The January 2000 car accident that would kill him occurred on his way to the airport. This Chief legend was heading to the NFC title game in St. Louis. Just wanted to be there. Days later, he was dead of a blood clot. Kansas City GM Carl Peterson probably put it best: "He had so much love for the game, for his teammates and for our town ... A light has gone out.” It’s a shame that Thomas is not in Canton yet – not up there with world famine and Britney Spears on the list of our real priorities – but a shame nonetheless. If he doesn’t make the cut in 2008, the Hall has some splainin' to do.
2. L.C. GREENWOOD, DE
Years pro: Steelers, 1969-81
Pro Bowls: 6
All-Pro: 6
Consensus All-NFL: 1975
All-Decade team? Yes
Playoff games: 18
Super Bowl rings: 4
Avg. defensive rank: 9.0 (out of 26-28 teams)
Cold, Hard Football Facts: Led the Steelers in sacks six times
Offensive HOF equivalent: Franco Harris. Never the best player on the team, but a steady source of excellence on a great team for a long time.
The case against: There are already four Steeler defensive members in (Greene, Blount, Lambert, Ham) and five more on offense (that in itself is kinda odd, and another example of bias, considering the Steelers dynasty was powered by its defense). Greenwood was never the best player on the Steelers’ defense, and he only had 73½ sacks over his career. He also tried to sign with the World Football League in 1975, but the league went down before his Steeler contract was up.
The case for: His career sack number (unofficial) of 73½ sounds like a low number, but the Steelers weren’t big on sacks. And quarterbacks of the 1970s weren’t big on taking them – or passing the ball, for that matter. In 1977, for example, the Steelers led the NFL with 31 sacks in 14 games (San Diego led the NFL in 2006 with 61). In Greenwood’s era, interceptions were high, sacks were low – and the Steelers annually ranked near the top of the league in picks and sacks. That he would lead the greatest defense of our time in sacks six times is probably a better indicator than the unofficial total.
3. ALEX KARRAS, DT
Years pro: Lions, 1958-62, 1964-70
Pro Bowls: 4
All-Pro: 9
Consensus All-NFL: 1961, 1962, 1965
All-Decade team? Yes
Playoff games: 1
Super Bowl rings: 0
Avg. team defensive rank: 4.5 (out of 12-16 teams)
Cold, Hard Football Facts: Missed only one game his entire active career
Offensive HOF equivalent: Anthony Munoz. Dominant big guy on terrible teams.
The case against: Karras played in an era of great defensive tackles, and was probably a slight cut below Merlin Olsen, Bob Lilly and Buck Buchanan. Also, his involvement in a betting scandal likely took Hall support away (and a season, 1963, which he sat out). And of course, he played for the Lions, who didn’t make the playoffs until Karras was in his final season.
The case for: Three times, Karras was consensus all-NFL, beating out guys like Olsen, Big Daddy Lipscomb and Roger Brown. And he was good for his entire career – he was all-NFL in 1960, and as late as 1969 when he was 34 years old. The Lions were terrible while he played for them, but it wasn’t really Karras’ fault – in the five years of his prime (1960-62, 64-65), the Lions were 3rd, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd and 5th out of 14 in defense.
In summary: Karras was a maverick who pissed off the NFL – and clearly, the league has held that against him. He was an easy Hall of Fame choice, but … well, you know the rest. Lilly and Olsen got in without a problem, but Karras is on the outside looking in. Oh well. He’ll always have “Webster.” 
4. CHUCK HOWLEY, OLB
Years pro: Bears 1958-59; Cowboys 1961-73
Pro Bowls: 6
All-Pro: 7
Consensus All-NFL: 1966, 1968, 1969, 1970
All-Decade team? No
Playoff games: 15
Super Bowl rings: 1
Avg. team defensive rank: 6.3 (out of 14-26 teams)
Cold, Hard Football Facts: 25 interceptions, 17 fumble recoveries. Made the playoffs eight straight seasons.
Offensive HOF equivalent: Art Shell. A late bloomer who dominated for perennial Super Bowl contenders.
The case against: He was basically out of football after flaming out with the Bears in 1959, but resurrected his career as a street free agent. He didn’t make the all-1960s team – and three guys ahead of him at linebacker on that list are not in the Hall (Tommy Nobis, Larry Morris, Dave Robinson). He didn’t become a top player until his late 20s, and played outside linebacker (not the glamour position it is today).
The case for: If Hall of Famers are judged by Super Bowl success, then how is Howley not in? He won Super Bowl MVP honors of a game the Cowboys didn’t even win, then came back the next year and contributed an INT and a fumble recovery to lead the Dallas to its first crown. Basically, he had a Lynn Swann postseason career, and a much better regular-season career, and didn’t even get a sniff of the Hall.
In summary: If they kept tackle and sack stats in those days, Howley’s numbers would surely be too much for even the tunnel-visioned Hall voters to ignore. But his postseason resume and general excellence should be enough. He has every quality a Hall of Famer is meant to have – dominance, play for great teams, Super Bowl excellence, longevity. Everything but a flashy jersey number and a movie cameo. But that’s the defenseman’s plight.
5. JAKE SCOTT, S
Years pro: Dolphins, 1970-75; Redskins 1976-78
Pro Bowls: 5
All-Pro: 5
Consensus All-NFL: 1972, 1973, 1974
All-Decade team? No
Playoff games: 12
Super Bowl rings: 2
Team avg. defensive rank: 4.8 (out of 26-28 teams)
Cold, Hard Football Facts: Scott's teams were 94-33-1 (.738) during his career.
Offensive HOF equivalent: Troy Aikman. A key leader for a dynasty who didn't play that long but who had a huge impact.
The case against: Played only nine years, and didn’t have the same success with the Redskins after leaving the Dolphins following 1975 season. Made just five Pro Bowls. Got traded out of Miami despite still playing at his peak.
The case for: In his nine years as a starter, his defenses were always in the top 10 – and this with two different franchises and 24+ teams in the league. Scott was a Super Bowl legend: he was the MVP of Super Bowl VII with the undefeated 1972 Dolphins and followed it up with another big game in Super Bowl VIII. In 12 playoff games, his teams allowed just over 16 points a game. Even after going to the Redskins at the age of 31, he had 14 INTs in his last three seasons.
In summary: If Jake Scott were an offensive player, he’d be a legend. He was a 7th-round pick who instantly clicked in the pros and helped forge a dynasty. He was brash, fast, smart and good. He returned punts and kicks, was the toughest guy on a tough team. He wore No. 13, for Chrissakes! He came up with big moments on great teams, and had a five-year peak when he was at the top of the league. Only the scarlet “D” for defense has kept Scott from his rightful place in Canton.
6. STEVE ATWATER, S
Years pro: Broncos, 1989-98; Jets, 1999
Pro Bowls: 8
All-Pro: 6
Consensus All-NFL: 1991, 1992
All-Decade team? Yes
Playoff games: 14
Super Bowl rings: 2
Avg. team defensive rank: 12.0 (out of 30-31 teams)
Cold, Hard Football Facts: In Denver's first Super Bowl win, Atwater had six tackles, a sack and a forced fumble.
Offensive HOF equivalent: John Elway. Why not? Sure, Pat Bowlen said "This one's for John," but Atwater meant as much to Denver's D as Elway did to the O.
The case against: Atwater wasn't known as a great pass-defender as a safety, and the Broncos rarely had a top-flight defense during his career.
The case for: Well, eight Pro Bowls is a pretty loud statement. Not too many guys with eight Pro Bowls aren't in Canton – especially guys who helped hoist two Vince Lombardi Trophies. Also, according to Denver's official stats, he averaged more 130 total tackles per season over a decade with the Broncos.
7. RICHARD DENT, DE
Years pro: Bears, 1983-93, 1995; 49ers, 1994; Colts, 1996; Eagles, 1997
Pro Bowls: 4
All-Pro: 6
Consensus All-NFL: Never
All-Decade team? No
Playoff games: 12
Super Bowl rings: 2 (won one in San Fran despite missing almost entire season)
Avg. team defensive rank: 7.8 (out of 30 teams)
Stats: Registered 10+ sacks for five straight years in Chicago's prime (1984-88), finished with 137.5 sacks (ranked third all-time when he retired). Averaged more than 12 sacks per year with the Bears.
Offensive HOF equivalent: O.J. Simpson. A dynamic playmaker who hung around a little too long but had a heck of a peak.
The case against: The numbers don’t add up. He wasn’t on the all-80s team despite huge production, he made only four Pro Bowls, was never consensus all-NFL. His sack total is impressive, but it came over a long 14-year career that, on the back end, was mostly filler.
The case for: Chicago's defense from 1983-88 was as good as any in football history – top five in scoring defense six straight years, with three No. 1s. Despite this, only Dan Hampton and Mike Singletary made the Hall of Fame – wasn’t Dent considered as great as they were? How is Hampton a slam dunk and Dent a maybe? Dent was stuck behind Reggie White and Bruce Smith his whole career, which is a good reason why he didn’t make All-Pro or All-Decade teams – Smith and White are Uber Hall of Famers, guys that deserve their own wing. That doesn’t mean Dent can’t enjoy the fun. And let’s not forget, the man was MVP of Super Bowl XX. Only seven other defensive players in the last 41 years can make that claim.
In summary: We’ve already put forth the names of defensive Super Bowl MVPs Chuck Howley and Jake Scott as HOFers, now we want Dent, too. Don’t worry, there’s no case to be made for Larry Brown of the Cowboys or Dexter Jackson of the Bucs. But Dent belongs in the Hall – and we expect he’ll get there, with two appearances in the finals already.
 8. ROBERT BRAZILE, OLB
Years pro: Oilers, 1975-84
Pro Bowls: 8
All-Pro: 7
Consensus All-NFL: 1978, 1979, 1980
All-Decade team? Yes
Playoff games: 7
Super Bowl rings: 0
Avg. team defensive rank: 16.0 (out of 26-28 teams)
Stats: Started every game of his 10-year career with the Oilers
Offensive HOF equivalent: Curtis Martin's not in yet (and could miss), but he is a good comparison for Brazile. Consistently great and reliable for a full decade.
The case against: Who? Robert Brazile? If 75 percent of NFL fans have never heard of him, how good could he have been? The Oilers never went anywhere, and their defense wasn’t that good.
The case for: Seven Pro Bowls. Three consensus all-NFL nods. Eight all-Pro seasons. All-70s team. Never missed a game. Had a cool nickname, “Dr. Doom.”
In summary: Brazile had a comparable career to HOFer Lee Roy Selmon of Tampa Bay – like Selmon, Brazile came into the league flying, and stayed there for almost his entire career. Like Selmon’s Bucs, Houston had sporadic success, and when Earl Campbell breezed into the Hall on his first try, the voters probably figured that the Oilers had their quota. When Houston DE Elvin Bethea finally got in back in 2003 after a 15-year wait, Brazile’s coffin was probably sealed. But Dr. Doom’s eight All-Pro seasons should be enough in and of itself – it’s as many as unquestioned HOFers Dan Marino and Dick Butkus, among others.
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